What are the best applications for designin and building a boat ?

[Tops]

I was told in my yacht design class that one needs three types of software to design boats:
- a hull modeller with analysis tools to get the hull shape
-3D design and rendering to read in the hull and add decks and other details to the boat and make pretty pictures
-2D drafting to take the finished 3D model and break it down into construction details

Wondering if this sounds right to the people in the industry...?

 

[TANSL]

So it can be deduced from your words that you are going to do all the calculations by hand. Perfect, that is the best way to really learn what is being done, why and what for.

 

[DCockey]

I was told in my yacht design class that one needs three types of software to design boats:
- a hull modeller with analysis tools to get the hull shape
-3D design and rendering to read in the hull and add decks and other details to the boat and make pretty pictures
-2D drafting to take the finished 3D model and break it down into construction details

What type of yacht and what requirements need to be met? There are major differences in the analysis required for a typical 30 foot yacht for the US market compared to a 150 foot yacht for the global market.
What would be included in the "analysis tools" in the hull modeler?

 

[Tops]

@TANSL yes, there are other calculations to do as well. If only I knew someone who knows and teaches this stuff ...like you!

@DCockey I don't know enough about the hull design and analysis programs to tell anyone else what they all do. I am still learning myself, part time online, with the instructor telling us to use hull X from a hull software like Maxsurf (which is another online class) or Delftship (I have the free version at home). We import the hull into Rhino3D (the true subject matter of the course) to trim it and add A,B,C features (deck, cabin house, cockpit, transom) and make sure all edges are correctly formed, trimmed and watertight. After that we add rigging and hardware so it looks more like a finished boat. I am currently not doing anything with hull design in terms of hydrodynamics, stability, or overall construction including scantlings. Makes me wonder if I should be, to have a more complete understanding of the process.

 

[DCockey]

@Tops What class are you taking?

 

[Tops]

@Tops What class are you taking?

I am in the second Rhino3D class at Navalapp: https://navalapp.com/courses/yacht-3d-modeling-with-rhino-level-2/

 

[TANSL]

I am in the second Rhino3D class at Navalapp

Very bad choice.
What do you need help with?. The best thing you can do is to ask your teachers over and over again until they give you answers, they have an obligation to do so. If you don't get answers from them, I'll be happy to help you move forward.

 

[Ad Hoc]

....Wondering if this sounds right to the people in the industry...?

It needs context, as design is multidisciplinary.

I am in the second Rhino3D class at Navalapp: https://navalapp.com/courses/yacht-3d-modeling-with-rhino-level-2/

In this context, most likely.

Why?...because the course you have linked to, and are taking, is only concerned about modelling using software.
One could easily draw the shapes and curves by hand using pencil and paper, but today very few do, if at all. In terms of boats/yachts, it is called styling.

Thus to create the shapes you want, requires learning software that can create such for you.
Whether you are taught simple conical intersections and isometric views and true views of interceptions and complex curves or 1st/2nd degree curvature etc etc...i don't know.
I did all these in my O'levels and A-levels at school.
But software can do these for you, but understanding how and why is the issue.

So, this course you have linked to is not designing boats per se, it is styling -shapes- and learning about using software that creates shapes. So in this context - design - means styling and creating shapes.
Shapes that maybe you wish to use to be a hull for a design of a boat, or a shape that is used for a superstructure of a mega yacht that a clients wants with a futuristic appearance etc etc.

If you wish to learn and understand how the design goes from a shape/image that you have drawn in software to a real vessel floating in the water, then you need to study naval architecture.

..... I am currently not doing anything with hull design in terms of hydrodynamics, stability, or overall construction including scantlings. Makes me wonder if I should be, to have a more complete understanding of the process.

Exactly, this is the start of naval architecture....with is totally separate from your current course.

 

[jehardiman]

If you wish to learn and understand how the design goes from a shape/image that you have drawn in software to a real vessel floating in the water, then you need to study naval architecture.

Amen

Edit to add:

Every now and then I go back and touch this post to keep it present.

In 10 years?? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/in-10-years.625/

 

[TANSL]

Ad Hoc is quite right. Although the course's advertising says things like "Keep making your way through the world of Yacht Design, Naval Architecture, and Marine 3D Modeling with this fantastic course!", it seems that they only teach you how to work with Rhino on something they call a "sailing boat" but which, in reality, is just a nice object very similar to a boat.
In my opinion, starting the design of a boat by making a fully detailed 3D model, with the shapes, the deck equipment, the steering wheel, etc... is a mistake because during the process of naval architecture calculations, of scantlings, problems can arise that force us to modify the 3D model, which has taken a lot of effort to build, quite a bit. That is why I think it is preferable to start with some 2D drawings and, yes, with a very simple 3D model that is sufficient for the initial naval architecture calculations and leave the nice renders for when we know that "the thing" is a boat that floats correctly and complies with its SOR.
(It's just an opinion, as refutable as any other)

 

[Skip Johnson]

Amen

Edit to add:

Every now and then I go back and touch this post to keep it present.

In 10 years?? https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/in-10-years.625/

An interesting trip back thru time... I was there in 1982 or so when Autocad and personal computers began to evolve.

On the one hand these new capabilities allowed me as an Architect to survive as a one man office producing working drawings in far less time than with hand drafting with parallel bar and triangle. And also allowed me to tediously develop some autolisp routines to automate creating mathematically pure and fair canoe hulls using parabolic and superelliptical curves which would be a terrible way to make a living but made a satisfying hobby endeavor.

On the other hand something was definitely lost, there's an aura around a well drawn hand lettered drawing that isn't matched by a machine generated print. I also vividly remember structural engineers bemoaning the fact that new graduate engineers no longer had the ability to look at a solution to a problem and realize there was something wrong, they assumed the computer was correct though often there was a problem with input assumptions.

Not that I'm complaining, those early days were exciting, riding the first waves of a revolution, I even made some of the first automated 3D presentation in Autoflix when state of the art at EGA resolution (320 x 200 pixels) 256 colors.

But time marches on and now I'm mainly sitting on the sidelines watching how things have changed. I dropped off of the Autodesk merry go round of upgrades with release 14 in 1998 and still use the program that I paid for. The current subscription model disturbs me, I'm not comfortable being a renter after a lifetime of owning stuff.

I have enjoyed dipping into 3D printing recently, it's a nice hobby type thing that allows me to make stuff that wasn't possible before. I did have to learn to do some solid modelling which requires a different mindset than 3D face modelling, the most difficult issue was finding a inexpensive/free solid modeler that was powerful and versatile for my wants as well as easy for an old man to learn.

We are still more than our tools (I think) but our tools do have great influence in how we do things.

 

[gonzo]

On the other hand something was definitely lost, there's an aura around a well drawn hand lettered drawing that isn't matched by a machine generated print. I also vividly remember structural engineers bemoaning the fact that new graduate engineers no longer had the ability to look at a solution to a problem and realize there was something wrong, they assumed the computer was correct though often there was a problem with input assumptions.

Drafting by hand gives you more time to think. Also, CADD makes really pretty and professional looking drawings, which I believe makes them look finished. Hand sketches are crude but make the designer pay attention to the functionality.

 

[TANSL]

@gonzo I couldn't disagree more with what you say. Precisely having software carry out routine work gives the designer much more time to think and, what is more important, allows him to quickly check the goodness of his ideas. Not to mention how easy and quick it is to correct your own mistakes.

 

[Ad Hoc]

...In my opinion, starting the design of a boat by making a fully detailed 3D model, with the shapes, the deck equipment, the steering wheel, etc... is a mistake ...

Then you better tell that to all the luxury mega yacht designers....as that's their initial MO to get a client.

 

[TANSL]

Ad Hoc, "I don´t tell that...", I have not spoken at any time about marketing in our profession. I am talking, and I thought you were able to understand it, about the phases in the design of a boat. On the other hand, it is not easy to find a superyacht designer who goes around showing his design to see if someone buys it. Things do not work like that. I think you should know that.
As I usually do with you, I will not answer questions or statements that only aim to show how wise you are and how you quickly discover that I do not know what I am talking about.
End of our friendly exchange of opinions.
Dance and be happy, admired professor.