Wellcraft 248 Sportsman Restoration

[SecondChance248]

Hello, my name is Jim.
I am on the tail end of my 1984 sportsman restoration. I had previously used Paul (Par) Ricelli for all professional insight of fiberglass restoration methods.
I have come to find this site to have the most informative people in regards to this type of work.
My biggest hurdle to overcome was to start this thread. The issue I personally face, is the discrepancy in proper methods, and I always took comfort with Paul‘s direction.
I started this project 3 1/2 years ago, and would really like to finish it up and hopefully be able to take my father fishing one more time, we’ve recently found out that he is terminal . I am a new construction Plumbing Contractor by trade and have never had any previous boat building experience, but I do possess the willingness, determination, tools and shop to accommodate the work. I am fully aware of my abilities, and also lack of.
The primary reason of the full restoration was initiated by thinking all that was needed was a transom, however the rot literally went all the way to the bow of the collision bulkhead.
The deck was removed along with the liner to properly access the stringer system. The boat is on a bunk trailer that was custom built for this hull, prior to her going under the knife. After removing the liner, it was also found that certain areas of the hull shell had delaminated.
At this juncture, most would have thrown in the towel, however I was at the point of no return.
This was my father’s last boat out of the many that he has owned. So with the sentimental value along with a custom built trailer, custom built dashboard, upholstery redone and numerous other upgrades including the motor being dropped off for a complete overhaul prior to starting the project .
The stringer system consists of 3/4” marine plywood tabbed with three layers of 1700 and epoxy from US composites. The stringers were then capped with 8.9 ounce seven harness satin weave glass followed by 0°
3” inch wide uni tape.
I placed the liner in followed by reinstalling the deck to be assured that the liner was properly placed before bedding.
The problem that I have, is that I left to much of a gap between the top of the stringer and the bottom of the liner. What would be the best method of making up this difference to assure proper hold? Should I Daddo blade strips of wood to act as a cleat that would straddle the top of the stringer? If so, does it simply only need epoxied ? Or would it have to be glassed to the stringer?
Paul recommended using a polyurethane adhesive sealant to bond the liner, but the gap is close to 1”
Thanks for reading and any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Mr Efficiency]

Well, I might invest in a sheet of high-density PVC foam of a thickness that would suit the air gap, cut into strips the width of your stringers, bed it on to the stringers with the PU sealant, then bed the liner on to the other side of the strips, with that sealant. But you would want something with quite high compressive strength, not a spongy foam. The question that arises in my mind, are all the sub-floor divisions equipped to drain water via limber holes ? Certainly that also stops build-up of air pressure underfloor, if you happened to have a perfect seal.

 

[SecondChance248]

Well, I might invest in a sheet of high-density PVC foam of a thickness that would suit the air gap, cut into strips the width of your stringers, bed it on to the stringers with the PU sealant, then bed the liner on to the other side of the strips, with that sealant. But you would want something with quite high compressive strength, not a spongy foam. The question that arises in my mind, are all the sub-floor divisions equipped to drain water via limber holes ? Certainly that also stops build-up of air pressure underfloor, if you happened to have a perfect seal.

Yes, every frame was drilled 1 1/2” for limber holes then filled with epoxy prior to tabbing then drilled 1 1/4” as to only have raw epoxy exposed around the perimeter of the hole.
I’m not concerned with a proper seal, I’m concerned with proper contact to keep the liner attached to the stringers.

 

[Mr Efficiency]

Unless you would be inclined to baulk at the cost, I would use the pvc foam, or something like coosa board, to largely pack the gap, and use the flexible bedding compound to close it. Bedding on to the hull stringers first, and letting that set up first, before lowering the liner.

 

[SecondChance248]

The picture is only an example but would this work?
5200 longitudinal cleats to the top side of the stringers then use a wider flat strip offering more surface contact and also allow more surface for the 5200 to ooz on to when dropping the liner, and allowing me to press the excess back into the bedding like a filet?

 

[SecondChance248]

I’ve glassed the underside of the aft sole where all the action happens (Fishing)
and tabbed a trapezoid shaped foam to help stiffen the outside edge.
I plan to use 5200 for bonding the sole but need to get these pieces post cured.
By using a solid black plastic and Epoxies Kryptonite
( The Sun ) I was able to achieve a surface temperature of 149 degrees F
Can anyone offer a time line of post curing?
I used US Composites 4:1 fast and applied it with 40% humidity at 80 degrees F
Thanks!!

 

[fallguy]

Find the TDS for the epoxy used.

Silvertip post cure for xslow is 2 hours 145F.

I have to be honest. I am not a big fan of your 5200 idea for the short stringer height.

Personally, I would have just glassed in a piece of core with 3 layers or 4 of 17 ox biax. I am assuming full access. The glass might have gone 6",4,2 onto the stringer below in that order. Roughly a yard of glass per yard of run...

Then bedding the sole as you wish, but...

5200 is really a permanent below WL adhesive and a little overkill for sole attachment, imo.

 

[fallguy]

I did notice a rather narrow top on the stringers; so I would be inclined to use 1/2" or 1/4" foam and bevel the bottom on a 45 for the glasswork-say picking up 4" or so of the low stringer. You could glue the foam cleats on with thickened epoxy and pack the stringer section with a foam cutoff and thickened epoxy.

I would still glass over all that if it were my error.

You'd want to go a couple inches past the foam cleat and onto the old stringer 6/4/2 or say 4/3/2 or so...

 

[fallguy]

Rationale is wood rots!

Post curing and then using a light wood cap?

Doesn't compute well for me.

Sorry if you were planning foam all along. Just went by the example.

 

[SecondChance248]

Unless you would be inclined to baulk at the cost, I would use the pvc foam, or something like coosa board, to largely pack the gap, and use the flexible bedding compound to close it. Bedding on to the hull stringers first, and letting that set up first, before lowering the liner.

This was the last email I received from Paul in regards to installing the liner. I was waiting for a phone call back in regards to the clarifications I seek when I was informed of his passing.
I'm assuming the contact points landing solid means exactly that, full contact of liner and stringer?


I doubt the hull shell will flex enough to get up and bash the liner, after your modifications. If truly concerned, I'd use (sparingly) some spray or pour in foam, just to insure things don't touch. This leaves only the liner to worry about. The liner is designed to literally hang off the sheer and land on a few contact points, usually under the sole. You don't need to make it much more stiff than you have, though the upper helm should land solid and in a generous bead of polyurethane.

Lastly, the part of the berth/seat boxes that goes around the sides and back of the boat, should land solid on the under sole supports. Shim where you need to and put a bead of polyurethane around these landing locations. Do waste some polyurethane to insure things are bedded, not just touching.

 

[SecondChance248]

Find the TDS for the epoxy used.

Silvertip post cure for xslow is 2 hours 145F.

I have to be honest. I am not a big fan of your 5200 idea for the short stringer height.

Personally, I would have just glassed in a piece of core with 3 layers or 4 of 17 ox biax. I am assuming full access. The glass might have gone 6",4,2 onto the stringer below in that order. Roughly a yard of glass per yard of run...

Then bedding the sole as you wish, but...

5200 is really a permanent below WL adhesive and a little overkill for sole attachment, imo.

It's a long and complicated story but the short of it is, I initially had a guy with supposedly 30 years experience that I hired when I was overwhelmed with jobs and couldn't work on the boat. While chasing the rot, the stringer height was never profiled. After terminating him and taking the project back over I did my best to profile the height. I feel my mistake was made when pulling the deck, the sides folded open and when profiling what I was left with, is where the mistake was made.
My decision to pull the deck after all the previous work was done, was due to how far the rot went and not being able to properly address all issues.
Had I known, I would've pulled the deck and as much of the liner I could've in one piece.
The deck was reinstalled prior to tabbing stringer, frames and hull side stiffeners to better assure maintaining shape.

 

[SecondChance248]

Rationale is wood rots!

Post curing and then using a light wood cap?

Doesn't compute well for me.

Sorry if you were planning foam all along. Just went by the example.

Light wood cap?

 

[SamSam]

You could cut plywood strips maybe 3-4" wide, glue and screw them to the side of the glass covered plywood stringers at the correct height and then glass them over like the stringers were done. That would shift the stringer tops a little but otherwise it would be the same as you wanted it to be. They would be stiffer also.
You have to be sure of any clearances that might be effected by doing it like that, like for fuel or water tanks or hatches.
I would use what Paul recommended, polyurethane.
How was the liner supported originally? Was it supported everywhere possible, or mainly under the areas referred to above? What was it bedded in?

 

[SecondChance248]

You could cut plywood strips maybe 3-4" wide, glue and screw them to the side of the glass covered plywood stringers at the correct height and then glass them over like the stringers were done. That would shift the stringer tops a little but otherwise it would be the same as you wanted it to be. They would be stiffer also.
You have to be sure of any clearances that might be effected by doing it like that, like for fuel or water tanks or hatches.
I would use what Paul recommended, polyurethane.
How was the liner supported originally? Was it supported everywhere possible, or mainly under the areas referred to above? What was it bedded in?

Thanks for the reply.
Tabbing pieces to make up the 3/4” will prove to be challenging, but I will do as you guys have recommended, luckily the center stringers are spot on and it’s only the 2 outside stringers.
The liner was placed directly on the stringer system with polyester putty, there’s also areas that were glassed with a single layer which I plan to recreate.
The liner only has 1 attachment point to the hull, at the transom, otherwise it more less is self supported.
My plan now is to shim the liner square with composite shims (1/4” gap ) for the center stringers and bond with 5200 smeared into a fillet. Once it’s cured completely I’ll glass tape over the seam.
With the center of the liner bonded to the inside stringers I’ll be able to glass the cleats in and wrack the sides square. I’ll do the same thing by bonding with 5200 and a couple tabs of glass tape.
I’m aware that Plexus would be a better material but since I have access to tape the liner to the stringers, I think it’ll be fine and still better than it originally was built.