paddlewheel

Discussion in 'Surface Drives' started by rasorinc, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    The fastest ones use treads so the efficiency is better than wheels. Here is a good comparison:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tccrBWtSda4

    The amount of spray is indicative of wasted power. You can draw your own conclusion.
     
  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Just curious what if any advantage a tread instead of a wheel might be? Think something like a tank tread.

    Works in reverse even better.
    I had a friend that took 100ft of fire hose and installed wood hinged flaps by sewing them on.

    He took a front spindle from a car and mounted it with a wheel (no tire) on the stern of his anchored boat .

    With the belt as an endless loop dropped into a 2K -3 K tidal flow he was able to power a small alt by having it run a rubber wheel ( solid from shopping cart.against the rim of the car wheel.

    It worked like the old generators we had on bicycles as a kid , but it created enough energy to keep a small cooler cold.

    Left unattended it still worked , except when a fish guy would chop it into his prop be passing too close astern.

    This of course was to remove energy from the water , not put it into the water as a paddlewheel would ,

    but it kept the BEER COLD!!

    FF
     
  3. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    The Oh! Susana, a 78 foot stern wheeler with a stainless steel hull used a gallon an hour of diesel at 8 knots. I didn't believe the gauge and stuck the tank everyday. The wheel has less slippage than a prop and has a lot more surface pushing the water.
    There is a lot more maintanence as there is a lot of strain and hammering on the buckets. They slam the water hard ever cycle and then unload. Checking the bolts in the buckets was a daily job and we frequently found missing bolts even with self locking stainless bolts. I would use lock tite if it were mine.
    The boat had no vibration, not even rings on the surface of my coffee on the dash. Pans on the stove or dishes on the table did not move. I haven't found that to be the case with displacement hulls with props.
    The drive chain is a constant nightmare in salt water. We tried everything we could find and plain old grease liberally applied every evening was the best but had to be done everyday. STP, chain lube, lith were all tried but were poor.
     
  4. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    plain old grease liberally

    Have you tried synthetic wheel bearing grease?
    It sheds water , and is cheap to try.

    FF
     
  5. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    Sure did but wasn't any better. The constant spray was just too much for any thing to last at all. Motorcycle chain lube is very sticky but didn't work long either. Maintaining the chain was just a daily chore that had to be done like a lot of things on a large boat. It was worth it for the fuel savings and the looks it got. Not many real paddle wheel boats out there.
     
  6. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Do you have trouble with broken link pins? That was the major issue and grease was smeared by the handfull on the chains. Having a chain break due to a broken pin slipping completely out was a constant fear. Inspection every 30 minutes was the order of the day. Replacing broken pins on those big chains is a dirty job.
     
  7. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    No pin problems but we greased every day. We had problems with the bucket bolts coming out. Whe wheel was stainless so didn't corrode but it did get stress cracks which we welded since we had a welder in the engine room. The owner was a tool and die man so we had a mini machine shop on board.
    He designed the power steering using the parts from a Ford F-450. It was great Very light and positive feel. Did find out it needed a huge resevoir because when the engine was off all of the fluid returnd and the stock can was't big enough. Nothing like a few quarts of power steering fluid on the deck to make things interesting.
    I believe the wheel sprocket was from a cement mixer and had a huge chain. There was a marine transmission chained to a reduction box that was chained to the wheel. Only the outside chain was a problem.
    On smaller chains there are several grades of chain. I have seen motorcycles destroyed because the owner bought ag chains for much less than ones designed for bikes. A ten horsepower chain on a 1000cc bike is going to break quickly and usually jam betewwn the sidecase and the sprocket, tearing a hole.
    Buy the best chain you can that is rated for the job. Size alone is not the only important thing.
    The chain had been from Ohio to south Texas and back to ohio with out replacement so I guess the grease problem wasn't as bad as I thought. It was just an aggravation to walk the chain around and brush on grease every day, particularly since I always seem to wear some when finished.
     
  8. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Woodchuck
    Thank you for the information.

    I would like to see a photo of the Oh! Susana if you have one. Also more technical information on the engine and size of the wheel.

    Rick W
     
  9. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    Lost the first reply so will try again.
    I am in Matagorda, Tx in an RV so have no pictures with me. Send me an address and I will get it to the former owner who will probably answer you. He was very proud of the boat.
    Things I know about it.
    3/8 stainless hull
    10X10 Wheel
    composite buckets (seem to cause problems
    and were replaced with wood)
    4-51 Detroit
    5 waterproof bulkheads
    Drew less than 18 inches of water
    handled like a log at slow speed
    House like interior which ws poor. The owner bought
    it that way and just never changed it.
    Layed out like an apartment not a boat or RV
    Hard to dock in conventional way since wheelhouse
    could not see rails.
    White trimmed in red with red smoke stacks (fake)
    attention getter
    I understand it was insured for $500,000, sold for
    less.
    Joe is 86 but very active so I imagine he will answer you
    Chuck
    Greenwoodchuck2@aol.com
     
  10. Guest625101138

    Guest625101138 Previous Member

    Chuck
    I have sent email that you or Joe can reply to.
     
  11. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    paddlewheels are more complicated than they first appear.
    They are most efficient when the bucket is flat. A cupped bucket would carry water up and end any advantage they got on the way under. The buckets are most efficient when barely submerged. Water over the top puts drag on the way air in a vaccum behind a car does. The boats are difficult to balance since the bow climbs a noticeable amount. The old boats just loaded for it. Pleasure paddlewheelers today put weight in the bow hold and live with it. It isn't that important if not hauling freight for a profit.
    The old steam boats had huge steam engines and used rather cheap fuel so they could overcome any flaws with brute force. Horsepower available from steam is awsome and the engines are mostly very low tech with little precision machine work. I wonder why no one is building any today. Scrap material to burn is very available. I guess it is just too much bother to wait to start and watch pressures.
     
  12. tinhorn
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Massachusetts South Shore.

    tinhorn Senior Member

  13. woodchuck
    Joined: Nov 2008
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    Location: texas

    woodchuck Junior Member

    Good stuff. The net actually contains a huge amount on paddlewheelers considering how few there actually are today. I wonder if it would be economical to build steam powered wheels today? I understand a prop is better above 300 horsepower but don't know why. It may have to do with size or tech available in the past.
     
  14. tinhorn
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Massachusetts South Shore.

    tinhorn Senior Member

    Well, grasping new technologies is what we humans do. I was disappointed in the amount of readily available paddlewheel info I was able to find when I was searching. Fortunately, I had a lot of time on my hands when I assembled that collection.

    Judging by feedback in another thread here (which I've lost track of since I've been absent for awhile) paddlewheels are excellent devices in certain applications.
     

  15. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I didn't realize chains had been used for driving paddles; sounds like a recipe for high maintenance.

    I have memories as a child being in the engineroom of a sidewheeler watching the huge steam engines effortlessly pushing the massive cranks. .Much later on a sternwheeler I watched the pair of big pushrods drive the wheel.

    More recently I was on another sternwheeler and went back to watch the action; nothing. The damn wheel was a fake, rotating courtesy of the wash from the diesel driven prop! And they call it progress!

    Maybe I'll build a steam paddlewheel drive for my kayak.
     
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