Marathon racing canoe design for cedar strip building?

[flowmad]

Hi,

I was wondering if it would be possible to design/draw something similar to an H20 Slingshot 222 or a Jensen V1 Racer to be built in cedar strip? I am aware of the USCA design "Tandem Ashes Quick" offered by Trevor (Ashes Stillwater Boats) but I am looking for something more "racy", if you know what I mean.

- Would it be possible to design/draw something like this without infringing Clipper/Jensen or H20 IP?

- Could such a hull shape be built in (stemless) cedar strip? I am sure it would look absolutely awesome .

Cheers
flowmad

 

[Dolfiman]

Yes, you can … with using for example this application :
Gene-Hull Canoe 3.0 - new version for Canoe, Peapod or Pointu projects https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/gene-hull-canoe-3-0-new-version-for-canoe-peapod-or-pointu-projects.66983/

You have also numerous youtubes about red cedar strip planking canoe.

You should be aware that performance and stability are closely linked, pratically the less the waterline width, the more the performance potential if you can cope with the lesser stability.

 

[Waterwitch]

Here is a marathon canoe with that diamond shape for minimum beam requirements. C1 Marathon Racing Canoe 18'6 https://www.bearmountainboats.com/products/c1-racer

 

[flowmad]

Here is a marathon canoe with that diamond shape for minimum beam requirements. C1 Marathon Racing Canoe 18'6 https://www.bearmountainboats.com/products/c1-racer

Thank you, but I am aware of this design. I am looking specifically for a C2.

 

[BlueBell]

Are you okay with the weight penalty cedar strip is going to bring?
You don't, care you want the "racy" look I suspect.

 

[Dolfiman]

Weight of a C2 cedar strip version can be say ~ 30 kg to compare with ~14 to 21 kg for an exotic fiber version.
With a crew of 2, weight of 150 kg, that means displacement 180/164 to 171.
At same propulsion power provided by the paddlers, and assuming a drag in proportion of displacement and squared speed (conservative, it is more when Froude > 0,3), the speed loss can be estimated to :
[(164 to 171)/180]^(1/3) ~ 3% to 1,7% , important to win a race, not important to just have fun.

 

[flowmad]

Weight of a C2 cedar strip version can be say ~ 30 kg to compare with ~14 to 21 kg for an exotic fiber version.
With a crew of 2, weight of 150 kg, that means displacement 180/164 to 171.
At same propulsion power provided by the paddlers, and assuming a drag in proportion of displacement and squared speed (conservative, it is more when Froude > 0,3), the speed loss can be estimated to :
[(164 to 171)/180]^(1/3) ~ 3% to 1,7% , important to win a race, not important to just have fun.

Thank.you very much for this very insightful comment.

While we are competing, I don't think we are doing this at a level where this would matter too much. There are many other variables for us to optimize before we really have to worry about marginal gains from weight. It's similar to cycling in a way I think. Many people are now buying very carbon bikes but their wattage and endurance is nowhere near any values where this would make a difference between 1st and 5th place.

 

[flowmad]

Yes, you can … with using for example this application :
Gene-Hull Canoe 3.0 - new version for Canoe, Peapod or Pointu projects https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/gene-hull-canoe-3-0-new-version-for-canoe-peapod-or-pointu-projects.66983/

You have also numerous youtubes about red cedar strip planking canoe.

You should be aware that performance and stability are closely linked, pratically the less the waterline width, the more the performance potential if you can cope with the lesser stability.

Well, we are paddlers (and sailors) and builders. We have build in stitch & glue as well as Cedar strip before. But we are not designers, at least not when it comes to boats. Therefore I guess my question really is if there is a designer out there who would be willing/interested in drawing a canoe that is similar to a Wenonah Jensen V1 or a H20 Slingshot 222.

 

[flowmad]

Are you okay with the weight penalty cedar strip is going to bring?
You don't, care you want the "racy" look I suspect.

Yes, as written below, we are not good enough to really worry that much about weight. The 1-3% speed penalty coming from the extra weight is not a concern.

 

[Skip Johnson]

I've designed a C2 standard and C2 proboat some years ago and am surprised that both are still here in the computer. Let me know which appeals and I'll post the full size patterns.
Edit,, patterns posted

 

[Dolfiman]

Here is my tentative design with respect to the H20 Slingshot 222 x 33/4 public specifications + the Gene-Hull Canoe file used.