Helsal 1 - Adams - Concrete Racing Yacht Plan Sourcing

[mustafaumu sarac]

Is there anyone who knows whom I might contact with to buy Helsal Concrete Racing Yacht Plans ?
I want to read technical article and possibly book from Mr. Adams about his inventions on construction also. There might be huge interest to that boat and there should be some texts.

 

[mustafaumu sarac]

I want to know who bought Australian Joe Adams business ? I need concrete yacht design , most wanted is mini Helsa yacht , name was Orca.

Please shed some light,

Thanks,

Umut

 

[TANSL]

Ferrocement yachts are not built in large series so it is difficult to have drawings of them distributed around the world. I want to say that these are "unique examples" whose planes only have the one who has built them.
I think the solution is to commission a naval architect to design the boat you need or to check if an existing design can be adapted to ferrocement.

 

[Angélique]

Hi Umut,

Try to contact forum member [U]Mike Johns[/U], he's a Prof Marine Engineer from Tassie Hobart, and owns a steel Adams 45' sloop, and he started this thread about Joe Adams.

You could try to send Mike a PM through these forums, or could try to send an email, see post #2 here, although that's an Apr 17, 2006 post, so the email address there could be outdated.

Mike might have the book you asked for, and/or might know about your other questions, please invite him to join this thread, so we all have a chance to learn from the answers . .

Good luck !

 

[Angélique]

From [U]PAR[/U]'s post #2 here I got the below . . .

Radford Yacht Design ---> The years at Adams Yacht Design ---> Contact Us

‘‘. . . . . After a stint sailing on the original "HELSAL" - including the 1973 record breaking Sydney / Hobart race - Graham Radford started working with Joe Adams in 1974. Graham basically served an apprenticeship before he became a partner in Adams Yacht Design (A.Y.D.) in 1977 and stayed there until 1987. Here are some of the yachts designed at Adams Yacht Design during those years. . . . . . . ’’

 

[Angélique]

Ferrocement yachts are not built in large series so it is difficult to have drawings of them distributed around the world. I want to say that these are "unique examples" whose plans only have the one who has built them.

Just nonsense !

You don't need to build large series to distribute boat plans around the world, it's no problem at all when only one boat is build from one set of plans, usually this is even a prerequisite for DIY build boats, as you should know since you claim to be an NA . .

In the heydays of ferro boats many great yacht designers where distributing ship loads of ferro boat plans all over the world.

Many of these where DIY build, and many more as one ofs in mostly small ferro boatyards all over the world.

These were the days the "ferro boat gospel" ruled the world, and must say when labor was cheap and money was scarce, as were good second hand boats, it made some sense to save a few bucks on the hull.

Pro builders with good ferro plans from great designers produced most of the time good boats, as DIYers sometimes did, but this was less certain as by only one they didn't build up the needed skills for the plaster, but many DIY builders hired professionals to do the plaster job.

There was a pro plaster team, I believe from NZ, traveling all over western Europe to do many of these works all the time in those ferro heydays.

I think the solution is to commission a naval architect to design the boat you need or to check if an existing design can be adapted to ferrocement.

That's just nonsense too, since the above mentioned ferro build advantages have disappeared in today's current time, so your advice here makes no sense at all, just as usually of course . .

Furthermore your above advice is also nonsense since building ferro boats doesn't make any sense today, there are also no Naval Architects in this current time available any more to do as your above nonsense suggest.

Anyway, have a nice day . .

 

[TANSL]

Thank you for clarifying my ideas.

 

[waikikin]

Some interest here.. S-squared http://www.s-squared.com.au/home/evolution/history/peter-ellen.aspx

 

[mustafaumu sarac]

I have contacted with Redford design , owner does not remember , know , own anything , he has no contact , he doesnt know where his old contacts but want to sell me his own designs 6 times more expensive than others. He had had been thought one time to protect the old designs of Adams but not acted.
He was in design , race , and Adams team member but does not know anything and never saw any ferro design been sold at 1973 and after. Wonderful !

 

[waikikin]

Maybe you can contact Murray Ellen the son of Peter Ellen responsible for the reinforcement system within the cementious matrix.
According to this... she may still exist in Manila .. Helsal tribute to Joe Adams in Rolex Sydney Hobart - Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2017 http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/news/2012/pre-race/helsal-tribute-to-joe-adams-in-rolex-sydney-hobart/

I've spoken in past to a Shipwright that worked on some aspect of the fitout, I seem to remember him mentioning adjusting fit up of components presumably after rig tensioning or similar.
Jeff

 

[dsigned]

Just nonsense !

You don't need to build large series to distribute boat plans around the world, it's no problem at all when only one boat is build from one set of plans, usually this is even a prerequisite for DIY build boats, as you should know since you claim to be an NA . .

In the heydays of ferro boats many great yacht designers where distributing ship loads of ferro boat plans all over the world.

Many of these where DIY build, and many more as one ofs in mostly small ferro boatyards all over the world.

These were the days the "ferro boat gospel" ruled the world, and must say when labor was cheap and money was scarce, as were good second hand boats, it made some sense to save a few bucks on the hull.

Pro builders with good ferro plans from great designers produced most of the time good boats, as DIYers sometimes did, but this was less certain as by only one they didn't build up the needed skills for the plaster, but many DIY builders hired professionals to do the plaster job.

There was a pro plaster team, I believe from NZ, traveling all over western Europe to do many of these works all the time in those ferro heydays.

That's just nonsense too, since the above mentioned ferro build advantages have disappeared in today's current time, so your advice here makes no sense at all, just as usually of course . .

Furthermore your above advice is also nonsense since building ferro boats doesn't make any sense today, there are also no Naval Architects in this current time available any more to do as your above nonsense suggest.

Anyway, have a nice day . .

Angelique,
I think there is a strong case to be made for a modern cement boat (though not using steel as reenforcement). Concrete design has advanced significantly in the past 50 years (quadrupling in strength, sulfate penetration reduced to zero, increased ductility), whereas epoxy is still pretty much epoxy (at least as far as boat building is concerned). Sailing in the US has greatly decreased in popularity which is (I would argue) in great measure a function of cost. In the same vein, hull shape has changed dramatically since the 70's, so a used boat is going to look used. So I think a "modern" ultra high performance concrete design would be an interesting boat, (at the very least).

 

[mustafaumu sarac]

Everything is great. OK , Where are one of these thousands of ferrocement boat plans. Hartley sells 12 meters ferro boat plan for 250 dollars but I could not like their design. I found mini Helsa is great , nothing at deck , clear deck and when you look from one end you see the other end. I like racing boat qualities and looking for a plan such like mini helsa. Can anyone help ? Anti concrete camp does not know anything about modern concretes. There is a concrete if you imagine it. Vast array of choice. Everyone wants a boat from carbon , such as 200000 woodenboat readers and only 10 000 woodenboat in usa.

 

[Angélique]

Umut, I know about the beauty of Orca, and I know about the first builder, I'll dig it up, hang on please . .

It's a small chance, but maybe he still has the plans, so you could at least have a look at them, and then find out about the rights, that is if he still has them somewhere . . .

 

[dsigned]

I dont like such smileys. If you have nothing to help , please dont post and invade.

I don't think TANSL was intending offense, he did, after all, offer to help modifying the design after the fact.

This is a project I'm sympathetic to, as even the cost of building in plywood is much more expensive than concrete, as far as materials go, and again, I think the performance of many modern concretes is poorly understood in boating circles.

From the articles posted so far, it looks like they hired a civil engineer to design the original boat structure, so that might be a place to check.

 

[Angélique]

I think there is a strong case to be made for a modern cement boat (though not using steel as reinforcement). Concrete design has advanced significantly in the past 50 years (quadrupling in strength, sulfate penetration reduced to zero, increased ductility), whereas epoxy is still pretty much epoxy (at least as far as boat building is concerned). Sailing in the US has greatly decreased in popularity which is (I would argue) in great measure a function of cost. In the same vein, hull shape has changed dramatically since the 70's, so a used boat is going to look used. So I think a "modern" ultra high performance concrete design would be an interesting boat, (at the very least).

How are these new techniques called whit the ferro substituted by better reinforcement materials, and which are these reinforcement materials ?

And to obtain the increased ductility there are also major changes in the plaster material I'll guess ? Does it still contain any portland cement ? Or is that fully substituted too in the new recipes, which are containing what kind of materials ?

Joe Adams "mini Helsal" Orca 51' design might be suitable for these new techniques, which suspectedly could make her even better, and in my opinion she is of a timeless beauty which doesn't look outdated at all today or the in next 100 years to come.