flat vs convex surfaces

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by lucdekeyser, Oct 4, 2024.

  1. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 210
    Likes: 18, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Fair enough. Thank you for your patience and insight.
     
  2. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,893
    Likes: 1,080, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    I'm a little late to the party but the
    elimination of "pounding" is exchanged for rapid decelerations
    experienced by the crew on such wave piercing hulls.
    Testimonials regarding the severity of such "piercings" were telling.
    Extreme fatigue resulted from such decelerations.

    So, sure, eliminate the pounding at the cost of extreme decelerations.
    But no pounding...
     
  3. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 210
    Likes: 18, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Thank you. I was not aware of that compromise. If the impact on the human body is exponential with the speed of change of position then this would be way more bearable in the speed ranges of sailing multihulls as these are about half of those for fast crew ships where strapping in motion dampening seats is required.
    I guess decelerations lead less to seasickness than pounding as the horizon is more stable. With two hulls though, preventing corkscrewing would be the next concern Here the proa seems also to be at an advantage when the waves hit the bows at an angle more simultaneously going upwind.
     
  4. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,893
    Likes: 1,080, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    You're welcome.

    I wish I could remember the video where the crew member was talking about the intensity of the decelerations.
    It was in EarthRace or some other similar stabilized monohull.
    He made reference that it was just redirected slamming.

    I could have worded it better.
    Slamming is an "extreme deceleration" but piercing slows the boat more over a slightly longer time period.
    Resulting in higher forces on the crew... but no slamming.
     
  5. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 210
    Likes: 18, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Are there any systematic studies of the different types of change in motion on human stress outside of spaceflight where the latter is probably more concentrated on G forces during lift off, longer term weightlessness and accidental spinning.

    Probably the analogy does not hold, but in airplanes sudden drops in air turbulence are much more noticeable than when entering a rain cloud. The speed of a multihull cruiser is about 40-80 times less than that of an airliner and water is about 800 times more dense than air, and even more at altitude

    But this leads us further away from flat vs convex.
     
  6. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 2,260
    Likes: 135, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: Pacific NW North America

    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The US Navy has done quite a few motion studies, I imagine most major navies have.
     
  7. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,893
    Likes: 1,080, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    Terrific graphics.
    From a "flat vs convex" perspective,
    the Horton speaks for itself.
    Enjoy.
     
    DogCavalry likes this.
  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 17,251
    Likes: 1,921, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    I wonder how well it does in heavy seas?
     
    BlueBell likes this.
  9. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,893
    Likes: 1,080, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    Great, so long as you don't touch down.
    It was more about flat stealth tech vs compound curved surfaces.
     
    DogCavalry likes this.
  10. Iridian
    Joined: Jan 2020
    Posts: 69
    Likes: 11, Points: 8
    Location: MD

    Iridian Junior Member

    Something like this could be good for an alu cat. Might substantially cut down on work required.
     
  11. garydierking
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 192
    Likes: 72, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 174
    Location: New Zealand

    garydierking Senior Member

    All of Jim Brown's Searunner trimarans were built with compounded sheet ply. This was not difficult to do and added significant panel stiffness.
     
  12. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 210
    Likes: 18, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Do you have an idea how much?
     
  13. baeckmo
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 1,728
    Likes: 744, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 1165
    Location: Sweden

    baeckmo Hydrodynamics

    Before you speculate further regarding strenght issues, I recommend that you study the dimensioning principles in modern scantling rules. There you will find that the panel camber (expressed as the curvature height/span) has a major influence on the strength of the structure. For example, in the ISO 12215 standard, the skin thickness has to be doubled when going from a camber value of 0,18 to zero, all else equal. Those rules are based on first principles of physics.
     
  14. lucdekeyser
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 210
    Likes: 18, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 51
    Location: Belgium

    lucdekeyser Senior Member

    Thank you for the reference. 124 pages of the normalized applied physics behind the ballpark figures, or, a convincing exhibit of why one needs an NA. Excellent.
     
    TANSL likes this.

  15. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 7,644
    Likes: 806, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    In reality, you wouldn't need an NA for that, you would just need to get the standard and read it carefully. But yes, in general I agree with you, it is good to have the help of an NA, we must leave aside the idea that anyone can design a boat, which is an idea that, unfortunately, is becoming very widespread since the existence of cheap rendering programs.
     
    BlueBell likes this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.