Experimental high speed Wylie Wabbit

[Matthew Kingston]

Hello, First post.
I have long been enamored by proas after spending 6 years living in Hawaii. Some truly incredible sailing between the islands. I have dreamt up a lot of ideas for a tacking proa and think that something like a sliding seat international sailing canoe with an ama that nests in the hull nicely while the other flies seems like an interesting arrangement. Just found out there's nothing new under the sun and this was tried to great success in the 70s with the sailboat Slingshot. uhhhh hello??? that thing is basically a 60 foot wylie wabbit. I want to hear what everyone's thoughts are on this; could a wylie wabbit be affixed with a sliding aka, with small marginally buoyant amas which are not really used for leeward buoyancy, but rather cranked out to windward to amplify crew weight. I believe this is more achievable and structurally simpler than building into a full on trimaran as the aka is just there for righting moment rather than resisting heeling since the leeward ama is against the leeward hull.
I want to win the solo division 2028 r2ak. pictures below for reference.

 

[jehardiman]

Welcome to the forums.
While you can sorta start with the lines, don't use a Wabbit hull...it won't take the loads. The Wabbit was designed for bays and lakes, it does not have the structure or the flotation for the open ocean or the righting moment of a ama. This is not lightly said; my brother owned and I have raced Trix (sadly lost to a highway accident) and Dave Mancebo who worked with Tom at the time was an office mate.

For absolute speed, the idea is a good one; but much like Slingshot's contemporaries Crossbow and Crossbow II, they are rather one dimensional

 

[Matthew Kingston]

This is why I thought to post here. Great reply thank you. for anyone interested my thinking for how the ama is bonded to the hull would be a similar idea to a composite chainplate. Carbon tow and a fiberglass layer which would get faired. these would have a bolt through which would serve as a mounting point. the wylie was built very very light and would likely require some significant strengthening for anything like this to to be attempted. the wylie would not make a great open ocean boat at all, however she would serve one purpose which is to get through the inside passage as fast as possible. I like her lightweight for rowing or a pedal drive. its all a compromise. If I were smarter I'd just buy a cal 20 and call that good. I want the extra righting moment mostly because I will be sailing a boat solo which is normally raced with 3. I don't want her flat planing at 30 knots, I just want her to be able to be sailed competitively with reduced crew. and maybe a bit of a performance gain wouldn't hurt. sue me . It's a tough race to nail down, I am torn between something relatively sturdy like a cal 20 or the opposite end of the spectrum, my nacra 18 square. she's a glass cannon, a big part of the race is psychological. having even a small cuddy to sleep in could be the difference between dropping out and finishing. hmmmmmmm lots to think about.

 

[jehardiman]

the wylie was built very very light and would likely require some significant strengthening for anything like this to to be attempted. the wylie would not make a great open ocean boat at all, however she would serve one purpose which is to get through the inside passage as fast as possible.

I just want to make myself clear, and you can go look up the exact details in Latitude 38's of the time or ask Colin Moore the Wabbit Fleet Captain. Soon after the introduction of the Wabbit an owner attempted to get one into the Bay Area chapter of MORA (Midget Ocean Racing Association) for an offshore race. They could barely make the knock down test (n.b. a Wabbit will not float swamped unless the air mattresses and cooler are in place) and when asked Tom Wylie sent a reply that the construction was unsuitable for offshore. While denied entry, the owner choose to be at the start and followed the fleet offshore. They were last seen ahead of the fleet and pulling away. They were never found. As I used to say when I taught sailing in college there are half a hundred way a boat can kill or injure you.

 

[BlueBell]

I want to win the solo division 2028 r2ak.

That's admirable but you may want to focus on simply finishing if solo.

We should go for coffee next time you're in Victoria.

 

[gggGuest]

I think what you'll find is that by the time you've done all the work to engineer the relationship between righting moment loads, rig loads, centreboard loads etc etc you'll have to have changed so much that using a donor hull is pointless, you may as well start from scratch because it will be so much easier to build the strength in from the start. Slingshot and its UK cousin Crossbow were one tack vehicles BTW. I think the Sliding Proa has been done - its certainly been much thought about, but its one of those things where the concept is great but the implementation is a damned nightmare. Proas were much tried in the 60s and early 70s with some success. Look up Dick Newick and "Cheers" for example. In the end though one has to say the consensus has been that the minuses outweigh the pluses.

 

[Stephen Ditmore]

You would remove most of the ballast, yes? In general I think turning a narrow monohull into a trimaran is a cool idea - whether you bother to make it sliding or not. Surfskis like those by Epic (long kayaks) might make good amas - and dinghies, too! TedVanDusen has a topnotch flat-water "surfski" design, and has the credentials to design or advise concerning such a project.

 

[J.R.Smith]

Hi Matthew, I think we discussed you using my Eel yawl for Y2K about a year ago. I am happy to return purchase price for return of tiller and bow sprit. You can contact me at sicls@shaw.ca. Thank you

 

[Wabbit 40]

Just stumbled upon this thread.

I'm a current Wylie Wabbit owner in the SF Bay, an experienced offshore racer, and I used to live in the PNW, so I am quite familiar with the R2AK course and conditions. After reading this thread, I felt compelled to make an account and respond here.

Do not use a Wabbit for this! You will very much regret it. I love the Wabbit, but it would be a horrible choice for this.

The Wabbit's greatest trait is how light it is; with this comes a very lightly built boat that would not be stiff enough to support the load of an ama.

Another issue with the Wabbit is its very wide companionway. The companionway is so large, and the deck is so small, that there is nowhere to put a sliding hatch. The boats have hard hatches that lift off and are not carried for racing. If you did carry the hard hatch, you'd need to fully lift it off and set it in the cockpit to access the small interior. Most Wabbits use a soft hatch to keep spray and small waves out of the boat. These soft hatches would not hold up in breaking waves in Hecate Strait or any of the other semi-open water portions of the race course. The inside passage has serious current, and when that current is against the wind, it generates short waves tall enough to make the Wabbit slam, shake, and nearly be very difficult to drive in a way that doesn't result in waves breaking into the boat.

Almost all SF Bay Wabbits have installed 2 water-tight bulkheads. One at the mast compression post and one at the front of the cockpit. These bulkheads make the boat both stiffer and safer, but they also mean there's not enough room to stretch out down below.

The Wabbit is an awesome little boat that's fast and affordable for its size, so you are not the first person to consider modifying one. The couple of modified ones that I know of have been a bust. The boats are not stiff enough to take the increased loads. They twist and rack under these increased loads, resulting in an unpredictable boat to drive.

Wabbits are perfect as they are

gggGuest has the right idea. It'd be cheaper and easier to build a boat purposely designed for this project, one that would be perfect for you.