Crowther Spindrift

Some good fun here. "I can't bond with foam glass!" " Not enthused to infuse."

Seriously though whatever process you enjoy is the one to use.

For me that is wood, I appreciate the renewable material that creates air on the planet while it grows, helps offset the other stuff needed. The beauty wood has is another reason. The skill set I already have.

I think another appeal is the piecemeal nature of the time I have to work on things works well with wood. It is easy to just do a piece at a time, an hour here or there at night etc....

All good fun, whatever floats your boat,

 

Hi Folks

Well I’ve secured my boat yard an old overgrown fenced quarry about 80ft in length & width my sons & I did 1/3 clearing last weekend more work planned over next few weeks. I’m thinking of a big canvas tarp over steel rope for roof . It’s a secure site 25 ft cliff face on 3 sides . I’ve found an old hose pipe with tap but there is no electricity & no power close by , the river is only approx 80m away.

I’ve contacted a few boat designers suggested but only two have plans approved to the new RCD British Standard for catamarans UKCE. This is a new safety standard for boatbuilders .

So I contacted one of the extremely well known designers whose 43 ft plans are £6k including bulkhead templates , basic okoume plywood pre cut kits start at £50k , but no mast ,engines ,rigging , no s glass or epoxy no electronics wiring plumbing. Alternatively CNC cutting files are £10k and still 7500 hours to build if I want to cut all bulkheads & panels myself . This has stopped me in my tracks as my entire budget for a complete home built cat is £50k over 5 build years . What to do ?

Should I buy the plans & spend 1st year cutting my own kit lofting the plans using the offsets etc.

Wharram 50ft Tehini or Tiki 46 plans at £5k built time 5000 hours build cost £45k can be dismantled & kept in a shed or kept in boat yard & launched with pull from a big van .

Pay another designer eg Waller Grainger White Hughes to put their £5k plans through UKCE

Upgrade a set of plans I already own for a smaller cat , how much can I scale up drawings from a 38ft waterline plywood cat ?

kind regards
Andrew

 

build a smaller boat , find a tri or cat in the low 30' range and trim down your requirements .

 

Be a bit wary of canvas over rope for a roof. Unless the slope is high, rain tends to puddle in it with very damp consequences. Bent pipe with a couple of longitudinals works better. Make a decent floor, working in mud is no fun, nor is trying to set up strongbacks. Organise some power. Mains ideally, but a generator if mains is impossible/expensive. Check the UKCE rules. Often home build boats for personal use don't require certification. Nor do boats that are going to leave the country. Almost certainly, a certified boat will be overbuilt. Your time, money and headaches (wood in a damp environment) will be reduced significantly if you can get your head around foam and glass from China. More again if you flat panel infuse it and more again if you build a Harryproa rather than a cat. Paying a machine to cut your ply is not as good an investment (health and time) as doing it yourself and paying someone to do the sticky bits with the toxic chemicals. You can scale a set of plans as much as you like. The trick is getting the scantlings and all the design numbers right. This will cost more than the plans if done professionally.

 

Ply or foam, correctly built will both be good boats. "Correctly built" is the key.
If your total budget is fifty grand/ five years, you need to look at boats 35' and under. Richard Woods is the man for good home-build designs in this size range. Woods is known for practical easy build plans, excellent sailing performance, great safety record, great back-up.
Having spent the money on plans, don't change a thing unless the designer has told you it's OK.

A Tiki 46 will cost nearly double the time/money as a Tehini to build. Neither is a good idea.
Wharrams are not easier or cheaper to build. There are better designs for the same outlay.
If you are in love with the Wharram concept, it makes no sense to build, you can buy used ones for less than current build cost.

 

Rob

Thank you for your wise advice I will do as you suggest about the yard roof fortunately when a scraped away the veg on the ground there is a cinders floor In future I plan to make some level cement pavement to support the key bulkheads when their location is known.

Yes I would rather build in foam for all the reasons you said, laminate the panels at home in my back yard & move them to the build site even if it’s a strip plank foam sandwich build . However I have found one quality design in okoume plywood that I like but it’s a 10,000 hours build . I’m still considering design options while my sons & I are getting the build site ready over this summer .

Andrew

 

Hi Burger

Thanks for your helpful post . I like a Dix design but it’s plywood I also like Chris White Atlantics . I already have plans for a Spindrift 37 which I may try to scale up a little & add strength & stiffness as that Cat ticks a lot of boxes. I do like the Crowther 226 foam sandwich Cat but plans are now obsolete. Woods has stopped doing his 37 which is another poss design. I’m taking another look at Grainger & Waller this week.
Andrew

 

I will throw in Ed Horstman designs again , $800 for the 34 foot catamaran with 3 doubles and designed for both Foam and ply , both included , $800 36' catamaran , $900 38 foot catamaran , all plans both foam and ply .

 

Good news on the floor.
Some more advice, worth what you are paying for it. ;-)
If you are going to sail with your wife, get her involved in the design choices as early as possible, and ensure that her requirements are met. Not only will this mean she comes sailing more often, but you will find it a lot easier to get the time required for boat building. Plus, you will almost certainly get a better boat.
Don't focus on designer quoted hours. Even builder quoted hours are pretty useless due to different standards, experience and set ups. Similar boats from similar materials and techniques will take similar amounts of time. Focus instead on build techniques where you can see and evaluate time savings.
Simple is fast, not just the build method, but the shapes of hulls, decks and lay out and the rig.
Cats are easier than tris, outboards are less work than inboards (assuming the boat sails well), unstayed rigs are less work than stayed, keels are easier than daggerboards (although centreboards are probably the best compromise and fall between them workwise), self aligning hull components are far quicker than strongbacks and frames, 2 piece hulls and decks are easier and quicker than multiple pieces and their joins, fairing and showroom finish will add months of hard work (and cost thousands of pounds) turning expensive toxic materials into dust to boost your ego. Save the work and money until you are ready to sell it.
Build methods, materials, hull shapes, rigging options and boat types have all changed hugely in the last few years. Building a design from the 70's, 80's and 90's, using techniques from the 60's is probably not a cost or time effective way to proceed. And it probably won't result in the best boat for your needs.

 

Hello Rob

Big thanks again for your advice. I’m divorced wife ran off with a bodybuilder when I was forced to work away from home to save our contemporary family home I had built. The 2008 to 12 world recession was tough & helped to wreck my family. My two sons stuck by me & live with me most of the time both are lifeguards while studying engineering. They want to get involved in our boat plan oldest lad is an engineering degree apprentice works on building sites with all the trades.

I sampled sailing in Cornwall when I visited my old London work friend’s & I am hooked every September heading down to Cornwall for a week on the water. I’m fortunate to have a few joiner friends & I have experience on tools & glass roofs.

I have the boat yard sorted but still researching for boat plans something that can be short handed but accommodate 6 to 8 berths when needed. Chris White has internal helms in some of his designs so reduced wet gear time which is safer. Dix & Harvey have some great designs I like but in okoume plywood I may still go down that route. I’m busy looking at other designs suggested on the forum.

Plan is a 5 to 8 year build around my job with help from sons & paying a budget retired joiner I know who wants to get involved with a project after his wife passed instead of working an allotment.

Many thanks
Andrew

 

Sounds like all is coming together Andrew, you just need plans to work from now. Good luck with it, the maritime disease is incurable.

 

Woods has stopped doing his 37 which is another poss design.

Ask him. He might let you.

I’m taking another look at Grainger & Waller this week.

Waller timber.

Foam I can get cheap from China, glass etc very cheap!!

 

Hi C Dog

I like the small fast Cats like the Crowther Catana 40 or Fontain Pajot Athena 38 , Crowther 226 all foam boats . The 226 has the modern fast hull design like Schonning Arrows I wonder if they borrowed the design . The 226 is ideal it’s a 42ft Cat with 4x double berths can do 250+ miles a day designed for home builder in foam but plans obsolete now. Chris White has an Atlantic 42 but pricey plans & a bit strange at stern. I’m going to look at Hughes designs again he has a small & a medium cat. Maybe I should reconsider the set of Spindrift 37 plans I already have build a boat in foam with a modern stiff lamination schedule like a few builders have done I could scale up 37to 42 ft same as the 226 & improve the space to gain a 3rd double berth modernise salon design like the Athena &modern dynema rigging. If I’m home building I can make a modern looking boat externally . Do you think that is possible or a waste of time?

many thanks
Andrew

 

Andrew , in my view well designed plans don't become obsolete if they fit your criteria , they can be modernized somewhat or a lot by using new material and build methods . Many of the older designs were built for cruising and not speed , so better suited if cruising is your main goal , many of them are still sailing around today and fetch high prices for their age . Pedigree Catamaran builds larger boats , they still offer older designs and you can get a feel for what a build will cost you by looking at their website . To a large extent build cost can be estimated by displacement pound , if it cost Pedigree $60 a pound for a build you should be looking at $20 t0 $30 a pound home building depending on fit out and your labor input . There are boat plans with 3 double births that are under 40' , so don't be stuck on 40' , less is sometimes better . Don't rule out older designs , at least 3 of Ed Horstmans designs are still being offered by Pedigree in spite of being decades old . Look at designer,s that already have lot,s of boats sailing around the world that are proven designs for function and safety , a boat design that has been on the water for 40 years and is still sailing is not an obsolete design .

 

Hi RBerrey

Thanks very much for your wise words I will have a look at Pedigree & another look at Ed Horstman designs. I’m quite keen on the Dix Harvey DH430 they also supply bulkhead templates but it’s a 10thousand hours build in Okoume plywood but a really stiff & strong 43ft performance & crusing cat with a protected internal helm & outside helm. I’m comparing everything against this design . However the Crowther design I already have is a proven design that could be improved maybe scale it up a bit & widen the beam 1.2m to match the Crowther Catana 40 which is basically the same boat. Then build in foam sandwich with a modern lamination & laminate the bulkheads with bitumen cloth or 1200 s glass triax on both sides & really beef up all the bulkhead junctions with epoxy & glass covings.
Really I would need someone to look at the Crowther drawings & add some notes for a modern stronger build.

Kurt Hughes has some interesting designs by $ 750o for plans with tax. Schonning plans are $20k , Dix $5700 + tax but include some Mylar templates just for main bulkhead, but all hull panels require CNC jigsaw joints & pressing together with epoxy then lifting as one whole bonded side hull with a hoist & 5 men to fix to stringers & bulkheads.

just thought I could modify the solid design Crowther plans I already have using a bit of research & taking advice. However I may find a set of new drawings from Horstman or some 226 plans. Who knows but it’s exciting I’ve got time to find the right plans for me as I’m still busy clearing out the build site will likely take all summer.

Many thanks again
Andrew