can it work?? dream at stake here...

[tugboat]

I cant remember who made me think of this- but on one of the posts i read today-perhaps one of your Bert?..i realized once again that truly everything happens for a reason- so whether i succeed or fail means little to me- what matters is--i try. but i can honestly say--everything does happen fro a reason- even if we dont know what that is--even if it is losing the person closest to you- can safely say--that I KNOW beyond doubt--everything happens for a reason..sometimes its takes ten years or more before we know what that answer is as to why --but it is there- so i hope i addressed that post--ill have to re-read through all the posts here to see what it was that made me want to respond to that...anyway--back to the build--ill be back tomorrow--upwards and onwards!! Ill make my frames for the mold in the next few days and post some vids and pics...

 

[tunnels]

this is one of the best of the best !

http://www.gurit.com/corecell-mfoam.aspx

One guy off scream and fly is into offshore boat racing and he thinks its great stuff , personolly im into Balsa .
as for a thickness 25mm is over kill totally!!
if the boat was 50 feet long ok . 9mm for the bottom & 12 mm for the topsides would be ok
but i would like to see and band of glass to glass about 200mm wide to split the Hull bottom from the topsides some where close to the water line level . stops water intrusion for the bottom to the top or other way round ,in the even of hitting and punchering the outer skin !.
Yours is a small size boat so out side
gel coat 450 csm then
450 csm and a triaxle 45/45/0, 800 gram
450 csm and
core
450 csm and 45/45 double bias .
unimatt at 90*gunnel to below where water line would be .
then over lap and set the other unimatt at a 20 degree angle with the top angled forward !
and 200 mm over lap at the top of the lower uni .
keel need a 200mm over lap as well .
finished off with a 450 csm !!
then all your internal framing !!

 

[tugboat]

http://www.gurit.com/corecell-mfoam.aspx

One guy off scream and fly is into offshore boat racing and he thinks its great stuff , personolly im into Balsa .
as for a thickness 25mm is over kill totally!!
if the boat was 50 feet long ok . 9mm for the bottom & 12 mm for the topsides would be ok
but i would like to see and band of glass to glass about 200mm wide to split the Hull bottom from the topsides some where close to the water line level . stops water intrusion for the bottom to the top or other way round ,in the even of hitting and punchering the outer skin !.
Yours is a small size boat so out side
gel coat 450 csm then
450 csm and a triaxle 45/45/0, 800 gram
450 csm and
core
450 csm and 45/45 double bias .
unimatt at 90*gunnel to below where water line would be .
then over lap and set the other unimatt at a 20 degree angle with the top angled forward !
and 200 mm over lap at the top of the lower uni .
keel need a 200mm over lap as well .
finished off with a 450 csm !!
then all your internal framing !!

Tunnels --thats really helpful- Ill look into doing just that--my choice for core is that thicker = stronger= stiffer. a stiff boat is a strong boat- but you are now the second person that has told me about the thickness being too much-i might go to 12 mm core...to make it easier to conform to the curvature...after all it is a tugboat -but just a yacht not meant for serious work. just the occassional tow.
also i did look into this stuff called c-flex. it easily will conform to my mold but its only a single skin and i like the idea of not having to add top hats.

i am still working on the keel...its the last peice of the puzzle- i think ill build in a very small box skeg...

 

[tunnels]

a stiff boat is a strong boat
Not nessasarily is strong and stiff best . i have proved this many times .
i have also said many times of making lamainates that progressively distruct in exstreme conditions . And its better to make parts that flex and twist and absorb shock and immediatly bounce back like nothing had happened !! over and over and over again . Have seen surf boats where the young guys have had the legs and ankles broken and been absolutly pounded in huge surf but the boats ended up on the beach upside down and when flipped back over right way up , the motor changed and was back out doing its work again like nothing had happened .
Stiffness will break !!and it will suffer !!and eventually self distruct !! boats have the habit of finding weaknesses and working till it gives way !!, if not the boat then the person in the boat !!

 

[El_Guero]

Hi guys... you have all been so helpful in the past--so want to thank ALL OF YOU..


i have just spent two weeks bedridden due to my back being in agony, and have had to abondon my steel tugboat project which ive already invested time & $$ into.

on top of that - there are no designs i am happy with including my flat bottom one...for reasons i wont get into here.

anyway- my back is finished..ill probably be wheelchair bound in the next ten years cuz of it..but - I am not giving up and hoping to try using a 1" thick core (honeycomb) or 3/8ths thick t600 core cell(can get a good deal on it).

I know many of you will be tempted to tell me not to use core below the waterline or that this design wont work or what have you- i kindly ask you to refrain from that type of comment--and just offer opinions on what im asking; thanks in advance for staying focussed.

im here to ask this one question to anyone who might know-

and trust me ive been on the phone all week trying to see if my gut feeling of NOT doing it--is wrong

sadly i have never liked a hull more...

its the perfect boat--didnt think there was but i fear its one flaw--is i dont know if it can be built without using an expensive closed mold...and single skin laminate.
if at all....

sooo

question:

will a 1" thick honeycomb core- or 3/8th corecell foam(t600) work to form over an open mold to the radii shown in the tugboat design?? the core cell is heat tolerant and cannot be t-formed. it can only be scored. so im guessing it wont form well to the curvature.

same with the 1" thick honeycomb. the laminate schedule is 4 layers per side of 22 oz triax. cloth. knitted.
so does anyone see anything that would prevent me from using either one of these cores on this hull? i.e- will the curvature cause me headaches and nightmares?

if so i can proceed-if not ill abandon my dream..

Have your surgery now. The longer you wait, the less you recover. And the more difficult the recovery.

That is if you really have a bad back .... back pain is 1/3 of the people. Those with 'wheel chair' problems are a much smaller part or the population.

Been there. Done it.

Wayne

 

[BertKu]

Have your surgery now. The longer you wait, the less you recover. And the more difficult the recovery. Wayne

Very much true, but as long he goes for the operation which makes some very small holes at the back where trough a instrument is inserted. The instrument pushes the discs apart. The doctor fills between the discs a replacement substance. The next day he walks out of the Hospital in perfect shape. Not like you, (most probably) with weeks on your bed for recovery. Bert

 

[BertKu]

Bert old freind- i apologize for not responding sooner--i was out all day today and wanted to save my reply to you for last since you have been so gracious in your offer. I got your emial earlier and i will repsond tomorrow(my time|) since its late here and i need to rest--my leg is starting to get the familiar "bruning pain of a hot wire running up it..arrrrghh!
Ill take time to read over everything in your feel good cocktsail and see if i can source this out somewhere here..your wife is suich a blessing--i am not married but i would trade my boat and my next five lives for a good woman...there is no boat worth the price of having a good woman and i wish i could say that i had a permanent one in my life-that took good care of me like yours does-- you are truly a blessed man-ill send you some mail tomorrow..until then take care...
your replies are never forgotten and always appreciated.

Yes, I have a lovely wife.
We like to post you a Christmas present if I can purchase pure Evening Primrose oil in this area (We were in Johannesburg at that time 1200 km away) , the kind which Prof van de Merwe did his studies on cancer treatment on. The one which helped me to reduce the swelling of the nerves in my back. You are only allowed certain quantities per day (One spoon, eating spoon) If I am successful, I will also purchase Vicks Medinite. That is easy for me. All what Vicks Medinite does is making your muzzles relax to allow the swelling to be reduced. The swelling created by clamping of the nerve. I will than contact you and you must give me a Poste Restante Post office which you can easy collect the Poste Restante parcel. In this way you keep your confidentiality.
In a separate mail I will give you your references for you to get it out of the hands of the Post Office.
If it does not help you in your case, in the event that your back is gone too far, it is always nice to get a Christmas present.

I see you are making progress on what to use for your hull.

Bert

 

[pdwiley]

the project in steel just seems undoable in my present state- but i have been feeling better so i dont want anyone to worry about me..im going to be fine- i just have to lose some weight p-try berts brew, and not do too much at first...Steel requires a lot of muscle--thats fine im strong- but the idea of lifting and positioning heavy plates seems out of my reach for now...

Steel is heavy in large sheets etc. Smaller sheets, easier to work. Butt welds are no big deal. Welding a couple lifting tabs to a sheet works for me.

I've got only about 50% strength & use of my left arm & I'm left handed. That simply made me think more about how I was going to move stuff.

IMO the most dangerous weights are around the 40 to 60 kg range because you can move them without mechanical assistance, but they're heavy enough to do you damage if you do it wrongly.

I've 2 gantries with chain blocks and 4 comealongs ranging from 250kg to 1.5 tonnes. Plus a 10 tonne porta-power unit. I don't muscle anything over 30 kg if I have a choice.

Think twice before you try to move anything and your back will last a lot longer regardless of current condition.

PDW

 

[WestVanHan]

Tug-
I had back disc problems-not nearly as bad but by being careful and using an inversion table it is better.
Has anyone recommended inversion?

Good spirit though-don't give up on your dream,just find another way....

 

[tugboat]

Yes, I have a lovely wife.
We like to post you a Christmas present if I can purchase pure Evening Primrose oil in this area (We were in Johannesburg at that time 1200 km away) , the kind which Prof van de Merwe did his studies on cancer treatment on. The one which helped me to reduce the swelling of the nerves in my back. You are only allowed certain quantities per day (One spoon, eating spoon) If I am successful, I will also purchase Vicks Medinite. That is easy for me. All what Vicks Medinite does is making your muzzles relax to allow the swelling to be reduced. The swelling created by clamping of the nerve. I will than contact you and you must give me a Poste Restante Post office which you can easy collect the Poste Restante parcel. In this way you keep your confidentiality.
In a separate mail I will give you your references for you to get it out of the hands of the Post Office.
If it does not help you in your case, in the event that your back is gone too far, it is always nice to get a Christmas present.

I see you are making progress on what to use for your hull.

Bert

Bert--you are very kind but really- thats not necessary- my dr. is not concerned at the moment- im in pain but i manage the pain with rest, heat and tylenol 1's, as well as anti inflammatories... I usually just ignore the pain and for this type of pain i do have a high tolerance threshold. I cannot thank you enough for your generous offer- but i just dont want to put you out of your way. It's going to be a real hassle to get anything shipped from there to here- but i think i can get those ingredients here off the shelf.


no question im in pain a lot- but i function- i dont want to mislead anyone--im not dying- im ok. Surgery is not an option for me. I know it works for some- but i have heard horror stories about people who have had thier backs ruined too..its not a risk im willing to take just yet-perhaps if the pain is intolerable - and i have run out of options surgery might be one at that time.

You are an inspriation to me Bert- and always will be a long distance freind so please dont be upset if i decline that generous offer, but in its place i will promise to try your ingredients..and look for the doctors book you mentioned.

I really did not mean alarm or worry anyone...i have lived with this for about 10-12 years now--yes its getting worse but slowly. but right now im going to be fine -it seems to come in waves and there are even days i have a few hours where there is no pain...so im very grateful for all the support but im going to be fine...

Right now its getting on with the build...
Bert- ill make sure to answer your email by tomorrow- i am watching ufc right now and wanna just rest...

have a great evening..talk soon brother!
Doug

 

[tugboat]

Steel is heavy in large sheets etc. Smaller sheets, easier to work. Butt welds are no big deal. Welding a couple lifting tabs to a sheet works for me.

I've got only about 50% strength & use of my left arm & I'm left handed. That simply made me think more about how I was going to move stuff.

IMO the most dangerous weights are around the 40 to 60 kg range because you can move them without mechanical assistance, but they're heavy enough to do you damage if you do it wrongly.

I've 2 gantries with chain blocks and 4 comealongs ranging from 250kg to 1.5 tonnes. Plus a 10 tonne porta-power unit. I don't muscle anything over 30 kg if I have a choice.

Think twice before you try to move anything and your back will last a lot longer regardless of current condition.

PDW

yea we are alike in that way-- its why steel really should not be a consideration for me...i am stubborn so i try to lift the stuff thats in between weights for gantries and other lifting devices for the sake of speed. ill try to lift what i should not ...its my nature.
ahhh but to have your tools!....im envious!

 

[tugboat]

Tug-
I had back disc problems-not nearly as bad but by being careful and using an inversion table it is better.
Has anyone recommended inversion?

Good spirit though-don't give up on your dream,just find another way....

Hey Westvanhan- Yea someone did mention it--im sorry if i dont give credit to that person but i think it was tunnels...

I would like to try that--but im quite overweight and this is why my back pain is so bad...altho i know with weight loss it wont cure it...but it wil help--and when i do make my weight loss a priority sometime beginning in april or May cometh-i do want to try that--i bet it would feel Very good!
do you have to buy a table or can you rent them? there are those boots too that you hang upside down ..but not sure if i am up to that yet...

what r your thoughts on using strip planking with core on my boat or c-flex--it seems c-flex would be the best way and then add core after? but its gets expensive to do that..

 

[tugboat]

Have your surgery now. The longer you wait, the less you recover. And the more difficult the recovery.

That is if you really have a bad back .... back pain is 1/3 of the people. Those with 'wheel chair' problems are a much smaller part or the population.

Been there. Done it.

Wayne

Wayne just to clarify- I'm not quite at the wheelchair stage yet...

i was figuring that if my back does keep getting worse i have about ten years or so...but ill find a cure or my body will heal--
about 2.5 years ago- i developed severe carpal tunnel--i couldnt do anything..i was a great guitarist and cellist. and i just couldnt play--the reasson that happened wasnt playing or boats- but training in martial arts..i made the mistake of mounting an old dead tire to a tree at head height to practice my boxing. and strikes..but what i didnt realize-very stupidly was that everytime i hit that hard rubber(which didnt hurt at the time) i was probably creating microfractures. so about three months after i stopped--both my wrists became swollen and almost in intolerable pain-

i went to a specialist and was told i had nerve damage and that my wrists would need to have the tendons cut. I had to wait a year. i decided that surgery was not an option even if i had to live in that pain forever!...but my body knows how to heal and in time-about 18 months later- my wrists are now pain free!
I can play again. and I took no meds--the body knows how to heal...thanks for your support!

 

[WestVanHan]

beginning in april or May cometh-i do want to try that--i bet it would feel Very good!
do you have to buy a table or can you rent them? there are those boots too that you hang upside down ..but not sure if i am up to that yet...

Apparently those green coffee things really help with weight loss.

Inversion tables,if you look on Craigslist you may find new ones for $150 and used for $100

One in the Sault:
http://soo.en.craigslist.ca/spo/3423515500.html

If you're going to TO any time soon:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/spo/3399594794.html

Ask your doctor first though if you have other conditions that may be affected

 

[SamSam]

I see a laminate schedule

the laminate schedule is 4 layers per side of 22 oz triax. cloth. knitted.

but no other details. Is there a plan of some sort? The only thing I've seen is the blue renderings in the op, but no dimensions or anything else to give an idea of the size or what's to be constructed or what the finished product will look like...?