Batteries and New Battery Technologies

[montero]

I'll need a relatively large 24V battery for a 7.5m catamaran. It'll require a lot of power. There won't be any solar panels.

I'm initially considering a LiFePo4 battery. I've been using this thing for 15 years without a BMS, and it still works. Apparently, cycles are more important than time in this case.

 

[brian eiland]

Storing Electric Energy in Spinning Wheels

...just for the fun of it I'll reach way back in history when I was fascinated with 'super flywheels' for storing energy,...and the electric car being readied for Le Mans

Post in thread 'New propulsion sytems for ships'

Apr 28, 2006

Ship Propulsion & Energy Supply/Management

Looking for more efficient ship propulsion concepts is all well and good, but one should realize that modern commerical container ships are really pretty efficient with their super big slow turning diesels and hulls operating at or below hull speed. Fast navy ships are very likely not nearly as efficent. Some of the big diesels also burn relatively lowly refined fuels.

But in the scheme of things the total fuel burn by commerical ships is probably miniscule in comparision to our vehicle usage, and particularly that of the USA. If we...

• brian eiland

One big solution to our energy equation has to be 'storing energy'. We just don't have a lot of good storage capabilities, particularly as related to electrical energy. Many times we are forced to use as we generate it. Think of the possiblities if we could really efficiently store electrical energy. Our sun is a fantastic source of energy as it bombards us with it every day. But our collectors (solar cells) just don't have the capacity to give us the energy density we need to power up a lot of our energy consuming items. And we need better storage methods than our current crop of batteries.

I have always had an interest in 'super flyweels' as a storage method ever since I learned of their original development by Johns Hopkins Labs years ago doing my college days. Hopkins wanted to put BIG flywheels (at the time low-tech weighted wheels) in underground chambers at power plants and have the excess energy available at night from these plants spin up the wheels so they could be called upon the next day during peak periods rather than turning on a 'peaking turbine'. And I began to follow their re-development in the late 90's as several parties sought to re-invent them for auto use. I was real excided when Chrysler sought to enter La Mans with a flywheel powered car.

I still have a lot of old material stored away on this subject (before my computer days). But I believe if you simply 'google' "super flyweels" you will get a lot of info, for instance:

Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions http://www.answers.com/topic/flywheel-energy-storage

Flywheel energy storage - Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage

Browser verification http://www.n-t.ru/tpe/ts/hpu.htm

http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/PG01898441/flywheel.htm

http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601/939.html

The Chrysler Patriot: Turbine-Powered Hybrid Racing Car... http://www.allpar.com/model/patriot.html

rqryley.com http://www.rqriley.com/sld010.htm

 

[brian eiland]

...and a bit more on this spinning wheel subject for autos,...

Low-Tech Applications, NOW!

Being safety one of the major concerns, here is also an interesting page:
http://www.testdevices.com/flywheel_article.htm

Interesting posting Guillermo. I can see we both have a real interest in this subject.

I doubt the auto mfg resistance was to the new technology, ONLY to the possible results of a crash.

I'm not so sure this alone hampered further development. Fuel cost in this country have been so low compared with the rest of the world there just has not been real economic reasoning for development of alternative methods, devices, technology. Maybe that will finally change with this new realization of world fuel prices. Hopefully we will see a whole host of new technologies get new research.

One of the problems I saw with the flywheel work was an 'over emphasis' on getting the whole technology optimized to its ultimate state prior to putting a product on the market. Yes, it is optimum that the chamber housing the flywheel maintain a near perfect vacuum so as to optimize the aero-frictional losses of the spinning wheel. But what's to prevent the allowance for a less than perfect vacuum and accepting some losses while we move towards a more optimum system. What's to prevent maintaining a safety limit on allowable revolutions now, until better wheels are developed? What's to prevent the use of these in underground (safe) installations at 'base line' power stations as 'peaking device' stowage, now??

Just as with the very early Swiss bus system usage, there are lower-tech practical uses for these devices right now. Lets get started now, then build upon the technology as we learn more. I think these higher fuel prices will promote such thoughts if we don't let ourselves slip back into the old modes of "fuel prices will come back down eventually"

Why not a lower-tech approach with a commuter car for now? Don't worry about an onboard charging source. Utilize a slightly lower tech, safety-limited spinning wheel, rechargable at night at your home, that would get you to work and back. And package it up in smart little 'cute' car like the BMW mini rather than some ugly aero-look. I'll bet you couldn't keep them on the sales lot right now. And you wouldn't be worrying about replacing those very expensive, heavy batteries in the current hybrids.

 

[montero]

If we look back at the problems engineers and ordinary people have struggled with, there's no better lesson. I'd call it the history of technology. Sometimes, when you look in the rearview mirror, you see more.

 

[montero]

 

[montero]

The creator of these videos deserves an award.

You can only imagine how much we don't understand and how much we're missing.

I'll talk to AI about catamarans in a moment...

 

[portacruise]

Don't fly wheels have a gyroscopic effect? How to steer a vehicle traveling in three dimensions without considerable Force and loss of flywheel energy, unless some kind of gimbal is used?

 

[montero]

Howell torpedo have flywheel in the midlle of the trunk so I think course changes are not very much against flywheel gyro force.
Course changes was probably minimal . Range 500 yds.

 

[montero]

Gyrobus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[montero]

https://allegro.pl/oferta/wyswietlacz-miernik-jk-ekran-lcd-4-3-do-bms-jk-v-19-do-bms-pb2a16s10-30p-17543488872?bi_s=ads&bi_m=showitem:desktop:top:active&bi_c=NmY2OGMzMDItYjNiNC00OTkxLWE2YTEtZDVkODFhMmQzM2U2AA&bi_t=ape&referrer=proxy&emission_unit_id=3aacca43-d286-45f1-86aa-94ac80cfcba1

 

[brian eiland]

takes one to a questionable site asking for acceptance,...then ads

 

[gonzo]

Howell torpedo have flywheel in the midlle of the trunk so I think course changes are not very much against flywheel gyro force.
Course changes was probably minimal . Range 500 yds.

It doesn't matter where the gyroscope is installed. You need to study how they work.

 

[gonzo]

In 1969 there was an engineer in Uruguay that converted a VW bug to run on power from a flywheel. I remember vaguely that it had a range of about 90 miles. However, the power was transmitted to the wheel by hydraulics which is inefficient. The purpose was a proof of concept of storing energy in a flywheel. With carbon fiber it can be made lighter and more efficient now.

 

[montero]

In 1969 there was an engineer in Uruguay that converted a VW bug to run on power from a flywheel. I remember vaguely that it had a range of about 90 miles. However, the power was transmitted to the wheel by hydraulics which is inefficient. The purpose was a proof of concept of storing energy in a flywheel. With carbon fiber it can be made lighter and more efficient now.

A carbon-uranium flywheel? Maybe.
But down to earth, I'm impressed by cheap electronics. Modules, Arduino, wonders. Just learning the elements will take a lot of time.
I need to learn a little more.

 

[montero]

Wterproof thermometer -50C-110C with display 1.5EUR .