16' canoe fix ?

[Wavewacker]

Okay, in the back yard is a 16 foot Coleman canoe (floating tank) made with Ram X material. It is very heavily built and has been sailed.

The material heats`up sitting in the sun and the bottom takes on shape with dips, it's a bit "soft n bouncy" in the water.

Idea is to put a light ply floor in it, maybe brace the floor down from the gunnel, drill filler holes in the ply put some weight on the floor bottom and shoot it with expanding foam. I would think the foam fill would take out the ripples so long as the floor doesn't rise much.

I'd get a flat floor, more flotation and a smoother bottom.

Added weight is minimal, still low CG.

Also, like to add a small deck forward, not to stand on but more for spray, perhaps a sheet of 6mm corrugated plastic used for small signs on a light frame.

A trolling motor is used as well as amas and sail rig, it's a camping rig for lakes and rivers.

So, small boat guys, what say you?

 

[upchurchmr]

Get it straight, glass it inside and out.
Forget the rest.

You might have to experiment with adhesion of the glass, but I got good strength in repairing a plastic front bumper on a Mitsubishi with nothing special ( not even rubbing off the dirt on the inside).
Some of the West epoxy is touted as having better adhesion to plastics and having more flexibility.

 

[Wavewacker]

Get it straight, glass it inside and out.
Forget the rest.

You might have to experiment with adhesion of the glass, but I got good strength in repairing a plastic front bumper on a Mitsubishi with nothing special ( not even rubbing off the dirt on the inside).
Some of the West epoxy is touted as having better adhesion to plastics and having more flexibility.

Thanks for the suggestion, while I'm sure that would cure the issue I don't think the cost would be light for the boat or to the wallet. With that kind of expense I'd be better off building a nicer boat.

While plastic canoes aren't real popular discussions in build threads (or anywhere else really) they are lighter than glass and aluminum and can take a beating others won't.

I'm taking it out this next weekend too, so it's a go with what you have at hand thing. Go now, modify as I go.

At my age I need to keep the weight down, I'd like the boat to end up under 100 pounds.

With that advice, I think I'll forget the foam, especially under the floor.

Since this isn't a "performance" boat, I'm having second thoughts on a full solid bottom, that defeats the purpose of the RAM-X material of flexing when it's hit, it bounces off absorbing the shock, I should probably let it flex below a sole. I just want a more solid surface to walk and stand on. To a point it would also keep me dryer not having my feet in water that splashes in,still keeping it as low as possible.

That will also give me something to screw/bolt a battery box on instead of straps that somehow manage to let the battery shift around after awhile.

I have more dry bags than one guy should have, storage isn't an issue.

I'm not going to any boat show with this thing, just function and safety is all I'm after and this boat isn't worth putting any real money or causing more maintenance. When it's not being used it's under a tent tarp, doesn't even rate garage space, but that doesn't hurt anything.

I'd like to hear about any camp canoe modifications this crowd can offer. Thanks.

 

[upchurchmr]

A single ply of glass (6oz) on the boat is still fairly flexible. The plastic original material will flex some and will limit how much damage is done for in a grounding.
One ply each side will provide more stiffness, like a cedar strip kayak construction.
The glass will cost ~$60 if I remember right.
Epoxy another ~$60 if you buy a quart kit (I think that is enough?)

My parents had a Royalex canoe that did the same thing. Sitting in the sun while stored it sagged, when in use the bottom flexed up and down with waves. Their solution was to decide they were finished and got rid of it.

A wood strip canoe would cost maybe $500 without your labor? It would be a lot nicer and you could customize it for sailing of course - at a lighter weight. I've always thought that a square sterned canoe would be a better sailing boat. IMHO

Have fun.

 

[Barry]

You could source some 1 inch square HDPE, high density polyethylene from a plastic supplier, perhaps they might have some scraps left over from other jobs.
Then buy a plastic welding gun, maybe 50 bucks, and heat weld in some linear ribs to stiffen the bottom

 

[upchurchmr]

You could also buy a cutting board, same material, weldable.
It would be better if you could get longer lengths.

Might not be fun to step on.

 

[SukiSolo]

Those roto moulded hulls have a life until the sun embrittles the polymer and it splits and cracks. At that point, all it is good for is regrind.... I have been known to put jigsaw through several roto moulded Optimists....

The point of this type of constuction is cheap and cheerful, introductory vessels that tolerate all the misuse that beginners give them. In that sense they are very good, though proper design detailing makes a significant contribution to their longevity and fitness for purpose.

Personally if the shape will not restore under heat and a good trolley, it is never going to retain the original form. If you want a better boat in terms of weight and stiffness, then light timber or FRP is the way to go. Yes it won't take the abuse in thesame way, but in all other respects it willbe a better boat.

 

[Wavewacker]

A single ply of glass (6oz) on the boat is still fairly flexible. The plastic original material will flex some and will limit how much damage is done for in a grounding.
One ply each side will provide more stiffness, like a cedar strip kayak construction.
The glass will cost ~$60 if I remember right.
Epoxy another ~$60 if you buy a quart kit (I think that is enough?)

My parents had a Royalex canoe that did the same thing. Sitting in the sun while stored it sagged, when in use the bottom flexed up and down with waves. Their solution was to decide they were finished and got rid of it.

A wood strip canoe would cost maybe $500 without your labor? It would be a lot nicer and you could customize it for sailing of course - at a lighter weight. I've always thought that a square sterned canoe would be a better sailing boat. IMHO


Have fun.

Must admit, I've never worked with fiberglass except for small repairs on cars when I was much younger. I also thought the cost would be much higher, I didn't know a single layer like that would be any benefit, now I know.

I know you learn by doing, poor craftsmanship may make things worse, I don't think I can screw up laying plywood and painting it......except;

This is RAM-X, I can't even find what the compound is as it is proprietary but I've read up on it. Seems it is highly resistant to acids, melts but doesn't flame much, while it is pliable from sitting in the sun it goes back to its original shape. Other plastics don't bond to it well from what I've read, neither do most adhesives, but I'd think there is something out there that would stick to just haven't found it yet.

This canoe may well hit the local Craig's List next Spring, another reason not to do extensive work on it. I got this boat a few years ago from a college kid who added floats and sail. The amas are horrid, they look like a 4' RC motor cruiser, he used a 2x8 with 2x2s and 1/8th inch ply with glass, each weighs about 40 pounds, but they float. Outriggers are 2x6 lumber and carriage bolts that I'd use for 2x12 deck beams on a house. I have used them a couple times but, all that needs to be taken off and redone. I may be too prideful in my old age, not much, but somewhat.

All that said, this old boat would make a decent camping/fishing canoe for local waters, like the White and Buffalo Rivers of the Ozarks, it will be on Table Rock lake next weekend. In 3 weeks we'll be camping.

Now, I agree that a square stern would be better, not only for sailing but just plain better all round for my needs. I really want to try my hand at building a sharpie or freighter canoe. My current project is an off road trailer that needs to be finished before I tackle a boat build. This canoe is an interruption to the trailer, but I'll be putting oar locks on the canoe today.

Some may recall the crazy guy with the requirement of carrying his motorcycle, well, that's out the window! I've had large boats that were seldom used because they were so large, lesson learned.

Any simple modification ideas? All (well, most) need to dismantle from this canoe to work with a future boat. Trolling motor mount, battery box, rod holders, tent, spray skirt, flotation collar, etc. as well as outriggers.



PS, I'll see if I can get a friend to load pics, all I can do is type!

 

[Wavewacker]

You could source some 1 inch square HDPE, high density polyethylene from a plastic supplier, perhaps they might have some scraps left over from other jobs.
Then buy a plastic welding gun, maybe 50 bucks, and heat weld in some linear ribs to stiffen the bottom

#2 milk bottles or other #2 recyclable plastic containers can be welded as well. Lay in as strips and build to form whatever.

What do you think of ply bulkheads with a hard floor, they could go to the gunnels to support a narrow seating area. The seating would support flotation under them along side. Just a thouht...

I need to get a welding gun, I think they are $20 at Harbor Freight

 

[upchurchmr]

Take a look at the CLCboats.com "Sailrig" which is plans for outriggers and sail for a kayak or canoe.

That is a simple ply ama with limited flotation - 100# if I recall a message from them.
The sail is somewhat primitive.

There is a British canoe sailing forum, I'll get the link when I get home.

 

[upchurchmr]

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?135-Canoe-Sailing-and-Sailing-Canoes is the British canoe sailing forum.
You might ask about camp crusing bits and pieces, these guys get fairly hard core. They do sail in cold water so that colors their ideas.

 

[Wavewacker]

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?135-Canoe-Sailing-and-Sailing-Canoes is the British canoe sailing forum.
You might ask about camp crusing bits and pieces, these guys get fairly hard core. They do sail in cold water so that colors their ideas.

Thanks for the tip!

Haven't been out in 5 years now, but we use to cruise the Table Rock lake on New Year's Day, had the whole lake to ourselves. Snow and ice on the trees, quiet, it was by far the best day to be on the water.

I think inflatable amas would be okay on this thing, they would pack up nicely.